Republican presidential hopeful Rick Santorum made headlines this week after accusing President Obama of following a phony theology. His comments, he said later, were based on what he perceived as Obama’s radical environmentalism.
A day later, Santorum explained his comments by saying, “I was talking about the radical environmentalists,” he told reporter Bob Schieffer, according to The Huffington Post. "I believe the president's Christian — he says he's Christian," Santorum said.
Despite the clarification, the issue continues to make news.
Robert Gibbs, an adviser for Obama’s re-election campaign, said Santorum went “well over the line." It is time, Gibbs said, “to get rid of this mindset in our politics that, if we disagree, we have to question character and faith.”
In today’s poll, we want to know if you think Rick Santorum crossed the line in questioning the president’s religion.
David Perry
11:04 am on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Elements on both "extreme" ends will question his "faith" proper, his birth information etc. Even his own Secretary of State uttered these questions in 2008. What is in question here is whether or not the President is on board with "personal responsibilities" and other values and morals that fuel this, the greatest nation on earth. This administration's (to include Czars) views of "shared responsibility", "shared salvation", "shared prosperity" and "shared sacrifice" do NOT match up with the basic foundation of our country or the teachings found within the Bible. They add up to nothing more than a twisted view that closely resembles "socialism" and fosters the kind of behavior that results in our 30-somethings, living in parents basements, asking for hand outs, and demanding entitlements. Look across the Atlantic to Greece, Italy, Portugal, the UK and see where this "Shared Mentality" got them. We need to get back to basics and rebuild this country on the platform of morals and values that made us the greatest nation on earth. To romance any other would be akin to treason.
Deb
6:36 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Bottom line is that it's a scare tactic. Remember that he's different people, be afraid of him and vote for me! Stick to the issues please.
Jeffrey Mailly
11:29 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
The isolationist and individual oriented mindset that David Perry mentions in his comment is an inaccurate assessment of the America that existed pre-baby boom. Shared sacrifice and prosperity is in fact a very real part of America. United we stand, divided we fall, right? The self centeredness that has characterized our nation since the 1940's under the guise of "exceptionalism" is an embarrassment. What David Perry and those who call themselves Republicans don't like is the government taking money away from the rich who've "earned" it and giving it to us peasants who make the world go round. They're probably the kids who watched robin hood and rooted for the wealthy kings. I could go off on a tangent about the tragedy of suburbia and big box stores and how its ruined our country and obliterated any possibility of forming an authentic community, causing the self centered mindset so common today, but I will spare everyone the trouble. After all, that Bible you seem to know so much about also says not to argue with fools.
Jeffrey Mailly
11:31 pm on Tuesday, February 21, 2012
And to address the question in the poll, Santorum is laughable at best and has no chance of actually being President.
Cliff Gerber
8:18 am on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
Dave Perry, Rick Santorum and other would be theologians ought to read the Bible and a little theology before the go spouting off. The Psalmist declares the earth to be the Lord's. We, therefore, are to be stewards and not abusers of it. The prophets and Jesus called the wealthy to be responsible for the poor; share responsibility, I would call that. Try sticking to the politics and let the theologians do the theologizing.
Patrick Littel
10:13 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
Great response. Thanks.
Andy Koenigsberg
9:02 am on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
No less a conserative than Barry Goldwater said the following:
On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?
Thomas Jefferson said:
The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man
Ron Goodenow
11:51 am on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
Hooray for Jeff, Andy, Cliff. Good to see the sanity and perspective in these posts. As an aside, and one who goes to Europe a lot, I find it hilarious that Obama's opponents always point to European basket cases as the 'socialism' our president is bringing us. There's no mention of Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Germany and other countries that are good mixed economies that meet basic needs and are stable -- gosh, and may have a Christian Socialist party or two. The UK, Ireland and a few others are less stable at the moment, but not because of 'socialism' but because of the practices of huge banks and the same speculation that has harmed us, not to speak of throwing perhaps millions out in the street by highly conservative governments in their knee jerk reactions. As for religion, our founders would be very suspicious of the charges and claims made by some of today's candidates, sometimes in their name.
Paul Bishop
11:55 am on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
If there's one thing we should have learned in the Age of Terrorism- religious zealots are dangerous. ANY religious zealot.
Andy Koenigsberg
2:14 pm on Wednesday, February 22, 2012
Paul -
And to that, let us all say "Amen" : )
John Laurence
11:36 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
Santorurm doesn't have a chance to make it to the White House, unless of course, he throws his religion under the bus like JFK did. Never did have a true Catholic in the White House...never will. Oil and water don't mix. Neither do Catholics and politics.
Andy Koenigsberg
11:54 am on Thursday, February 23, 2012
I know plenty of Catholics who don't share Santorum's views. BTW - Joe Biden is a Catholic. It is the ability to separate your religious views from your politics and not trying to foist them on the electorate at large which is important. This is where Santorum and those who share his philosophy fail.
John Laurence
12:15 pm on Thursday, February 23, 2012
Just because he gets ashes on Ash Wednesday and goes to mass and receives communion doesn't necessarily make Joe Biden a Catholic in a true sense. He is in the same league as the Kennedys from my viewpoint...throwing his religion under the bus for the sake of politics.
David Perry
12:43 pm on Thursday, February 23, 2012
God Bless all of us and our First Amendment rights. I'm glad you feel compelled to support those who do not support themselves. I do not. However, I will think of you when I see someone paying for groceries with EBT and then wire thousands in cash to San Paulo from the same store. I will think of you when I watch the same EBT card being used in an ATM and watch the people, who need so much, use that same cash to buy drugs and booze. I will think of you when yet another of the Guaman brothers (illegals in Milford) commit crimes in your neighborhoods. I will think of you when I walk past an "occu-tard" asking for help, knowing that you will be behind me taking care of them, your sheeple. Finally, you are correct. No use in arguing with fools/progressives/liberals. It's like a monkey tossing feces in a glass cage. I'm outside and laughing and you are still covered in it. For the record, I'm not "Republican". I disliked George W and this administration as well. ALL PROGRESSIVES. All selling our country out.
Andy Koenigsberg
2:27 pm on Thursday, February 23, 2012
Your ad hominem attacks on those you disagree with here do nothing to advance the discussion. The issue here is keeping one's theology out of politics. If you don't buy into Obama's politics, fine - don't vote for him but don't presume to know my views or politics based on my quoting Barry Goldwater and Thomas Jefferson.
Paul Bishop
5:31 pm on Thursday, February 23, 2012
The problem is that people who force their views on others actually often think they are doing the right thing. Asserting that Catholics (of all the possibles) have some kind of moral high ground is revisionist and nonsensical, and the very heart of the problem. Since nobody can prove their beliefs to be true, they are ALL faith.. Belief in something that inherntly cannot be proven. To use faith in one's own unprovable faith as a weapon to attack someone else's, all you manage to say is "My imaginary friend is better than yours.".... If that's all you have, you are a pathetic represntation of faith of any diety.. Only a coward with a very human agenda.
John Laurence
5:42 am on Friday, February 24, 2012
Apparently, Obama's imaginary friend trumps everyone's imaginary friends...
http://www.spiritdaily.com/A223obamaapology.htm
Or is it 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease'???
Andy Koenigsberg
9:12 am on Friday, February 24, 2012
The squeaky wheel here is wielding AK-47s and killing our soldiers. If anything, the insanity in Afghanistan should only reinforce the consensus here that Rick Santorum's philosophy has no place in American politics.
John Laurence
9:44 am on Friday, February 24, 2012
Speaking of philosophy, it appears that our current president believes the way to achieve peace in the world is that we all bow down to Allah and apologize for not respecting him as the alpha and omega!
Nigger
9:35 am on Friday, February 24, 2012
I remember learning in Catholic elementary school that the Catholic imaginary friend was the one true friend. And the nuns actually told us that non-Catholics would go to hell for not believing in the "one true imaginary friend." Right then, at about age 7, I realized that religion was bullshit. How come it takes so long for others to come to that realization?
John Laurence
9:57 am on Friday, February 24, 2012
You seem to be describing the Catholic dogma "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church", which still holds true today, but the church does NOT teach what you learned form those nuns...however many of them to which you are referring.
In fact, Vatican II shed a lot of light on this dogma as is found in the most recent catechism, sections 846 - 856. You and anyone else who might have been mislead by erroneous teaching would benefit greatly from reading this in depth explanation of the dogma.
Nigger
10:05 am on Friday, February 24, 2012
Sounds like a lot of man made rules. I'll just be nice to people and treat them the way I want to be treated and hope that works to get me to heaven.
John Laurence
10:16 am on Friday, February 24, 2012
Essentially, you just summed up what the Catechism says.
We are only responsible for what we know!
Paul Bishop
4:47 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Ah yes, so please explain the invention of an entire plane of existence (even more than God himself managed) called Purgatory... Indulgences... Hundreds of thousands of "heathen" killed outright to "save them"... your insistence that your particular choice is the "right" one and that others are not is the entire problem. Open your eyes past dogma and realize that yours is no better than anyone else's... and even if it WERE true, it has NO place in politics...
John Laurence
6:40 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
The short answer to your question is that Purgatory IS God's mercy for those of us who are yet sinners. In other words, without Purgatory the only other choice would be hell, as we cannot view God in our present state.
Therefore, those souls who are detained in Purgatory are actually quite pleased to be there as they are assured in knowing that they will one day see and be with God. Indulgences are 'earned' reductions from time to be spent in Purgatory.
The heathens you speak about...I don't know much about. What is that?
The Catholic church is the only one started by Jesus Christ. He is the source of our doctrine and dogmas. All the other churches were started by people other than Christ and therefore, of 'human' origin.
Surely morality has a place in politics. Otherwise, there would be kaos in the streets! Wouldn't you agree?
el senor
7:10 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Christ did not start the catholic church!!
John Laurence
4:42 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
So who instituted the Catholic Church if not Jesus Christ???
I would think the answer to that question can even be found in secular history books!
JB
5:57 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Wasn’t it Constantine? The emperor who used Christianity to empower his government throughout the Roman Empire.
Constantine selected the four canonical gospels (from many) to organize and thus, define Christianity.
All other gospels were to be destroyed and those that did not fall in line where not treated nicely.
Andy Koenigsberg
9:48 pm on Friday, February 24, 2012
Ah yes. Fascinating how far this discussion has gone so far off the rails. What was the original question?
John Laurence
5:27 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
I believe the question is whether or not it is approproiate to question the president's theology. It seems to me that if the president's viewpoint on theology is NOT questioned, then we cannot know a lot about his moral fiber/character...which of course, is a very necessary evaluation prior to electing him (or after) in this case.
For example: If the president cannot see that life begins at conception and these children have a right to live, then this is VERY IMPORTANT criteria for his reelection.
Andy Koenigsberg
11:17 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
So a person cannot be moral without being religious? This discussion is starting to remind me of the story about "Hell explained by a chemistry student" which goes in part: "Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls go to Hell." I also find the slogan relevant that states: "Going to church every sunday does not make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car." In short, I fundamentally disagree with you that one's religion provides any insight into their moral character. It is their actions that count. People like Santorum believe that the right to life begins at conception and ends at birth. He is for the death penalty - albeit in a limited sense, which is against the teachings of the Catholic Church. Does one's religious convictions provide insights into one's moral character? I don't think so.
John Laurence
3:04 pm on Saturday, February 25, 2012
Every human being has the moral 'law' written in their hearts, whether they believe in God or not. The bible itself reveals this truth. The purpose of religion is to fortify one's personal battle between good and evil. Civilisations come and go. Empires rise and fall. This life is very short, given the eternal life that awaits all people. The important factor is to prepare ourselves for the next world while living in this one.
We all have a moral obligation to elect officials that will represent our values. We cannot know the candidate well enough unless we peer into his/her religious beliefs and/or whether they even have any...amongst the other beliefs/philosophies they live by.
The question of this poll was whether questioning Obama's theology was appropriate. To that end, I think it is absolutely appropriate.
Like I said earlier: "Santorum is NOT White House material". No Catholic should be in the White House. Biden misrepresents Catholicism. The only true value and purpose for Catholics is to lose their lives for the sake of the truth. (Persecution is on the horizon for all true Catholics). Therefore they should refrain from political office!
Andy Koenigsberg
11:20 am on Saturday, February 25, 2012
The worst government is often the most moral. One composed of cynics is often very tolerant and humane. But when the fanatics get on top there is no limit to oppression. - H.L. Mencken