patching...
Welcome back, Patch Blogger!

POLL: Are Father-Daughter Dances Gender Discrimination?

Children will no longer be able to dance with their parents in Cranston, RI schools.

 

Parents of children who attend Cranston, RI public schools were notified recently of a ban on father-daughter and mother-son activities as school lawyers concluded the traditions violate state gender discrimination laws, Cranston Patch reports.

"The action was triggered by a letter from the American Civil Liberties Union, said School Superintendent Judith Lundsten. The letter was written on behalf of a mother who said her daughter was unable to go to the father-daughter dance," the article said.

While title IX allows for father-daughter and mother-son activities, state law is more restrictive. Now, the Cranston school committee is asking state lawmakers to change Rhode Island law to mirror federal law, making the now banned dances legal again. 

What do you think? Should father-daughter and mother-son dances be allowed in schools? Take our poll and speak your mind in the comments section. 

  • Are father-daughter dances gender discrimination?

    (Voting has been closed for this question)
    • Yes.
        11 (10%)
    • No.
        90 (86%)
    • Not sure.
        1 (0%)
    • Other. (Tell us in the comments)
        2 (1%)
    Total votes: 104
  • Your vote will only count once. This is not a scientific poll. View Results Vote!
Related Topics: ACLU, BAN, Cranston School District, Father Daughter Dance, Poll, Sean Gately, Title IX, and complaint

Charlie

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

I don't think it is discriminating...but I always thought they should have a Mother and Son dances. I would have loved that with my two boys.

Reply

phyllis simons

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

puh-leez...what next? It's a teachinig moment for kids and adults. If there's no father, send a granddad, a friend, a brother. Hope they get the state law changed so the event can go on again. Didn't state lawmakers think about this ?

Reply

Mike McTague

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

This is unbelievable, just because a woman doesn't have a husband for what ever the reason may be does not mean a daughter has to be left out of a Father Daughter dance. I know plenty that have gone to a dance with Uncles and Grandfathers.
Cranston should be ashamed of themselves.

Reply

Carol Mitchell

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Absolutely ridiculous! Things like these dances are something that a child will never forget. It bonds parent/child. I think it's terrible how everything is changing in this world. Connections between people are being disolved and I think it's absolutely stupid. I'm glad my school days are over and so are my children's, but I feel sorry for my grandchildren!

Reply

Milford Senior Man

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

A ban on father-daughter and mother-son dances brought on by a letter from the American Civil Liberties Union. What a disgrace! This country is going down hill fast. We allow this organization to remove things that are good and decent. You can't have anything normal because someone might get offended. Give me a break.....

Reply

Mark Cain

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

No and the ACLU is killing our country!

Reply

Anne Monopoli

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

for years our school had Breakfast with dad and kids always brought uncles ,fathers, grandfathers or just friends. Why do we have to always stop the fun things for everyone.

Reply

Ray Fellows

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

The ACLU crowd won't be happy until they have completely wiped the traditional American family. Or should I say redefine it.

Reply

Peg

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Is the country getting this bad that a mom can't go to a dance with her son and vice versa????? Sickening.

Reply

Mark Wyspianski

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

This country better get its head out of its ass soon or every value we learned growing up will be lost to political correctness, which by the way is not how the majority of people feel is the right way. Since when is what a few think is now majority?

Reply

Lori

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Some traditions need to be fought for, and some traditions need to change with the times. I don't remember any father-daughter dance I ever attended so I don't feel strongly about this particular tradition. But if the community is asking for it, then there should be some flexibility. Perhaps some dance (or change "dance" to "social") could be held that is for parent/child as opposed to traditional gender roles. Either parent can take any child and join together as a community for a social with music, dancing if they want, maybe one of those "follow along dance video game" things I've seen at some birthday parties that involve the whole group, cake, punch, and a fun evening that doesn't specifically exclude anyone.

Reply

Margaret Carr

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

I don't really have an opinon on gender discrimination, but I do know that it's not inclusive. My mother lost her father when she was 9. She has told me that the yearly Father-Daughter Dance in her town was one that she dreaded for weeks leading up and the night of. There are many children that don't have fathers involved in their lives. This reminds me of the Muffins and Moms and Donuts with Dad programs they used to hold at Deerfield. Totally off the mark. Thank Goodness that had been changed!

Reply

Joe Kane

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

These dances are a special time for both Father and Daughter. Why take that moment away from them? If people want to do other dances that emphasize other types of relationships, then go ahead and set those up, but you have no right to take away the fun of others!!

Reply

greoumina rodgers

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

some people just have too much time on their hands--this issue is moronic.

Reply

MF1222

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

I think the ACLU needs better things to do. Why take a special event away like that.

Reply

CharlesHaughey

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

I think when these dance's were originally started, way back, it was a different time and the intent was not discrimination. However, times have changed and in a world where you do have children being raised by dual parents, single parents, 2 moms, 2 dads, it's not really practical and does alienate those who don't fit the category. We should ask ourselves how do the children who don't have a Dad or Mom in their life feel when they can't go to the dance or have to go with extended family member. Kids in school spend a lot of time trying to fit in and these situations don't help. Just my opinion.

Reply
Comment_arrow

John Warshaw

7:16 am on Sunday, September 23, 2012

Right on the mark. We should encorge inclusiveness instead of hanging on to vestiges of old traditions.

BigMama

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Whoever this mother is, she is doing a disservice to her daughter (who undoubtedly does not have a father in the picture, so she's going to ruin a perfectly innocent event.) Our culture is becoming so skewed...less grace and civility on one hand coupled with CRAZY political correctness.on the other. Makes you wonder how the daughter is going to turn out in terms of resilency when Mama fails to let her face any uncomfortable situation. Shame on her.

Reply

EE R

4:04 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

It's not about gender but that might be the way to get people to pay attention. Why would anyone set up school functions that are going to exclude any student and simply make him/her feel badly? Many children do not have relationships with one of their parents or simply do not have a father or mother. There should be many ways to hold parent-child activities. Would it be so bad to have parent-child ball games instead of mother-son ones? And why are schools perpetuating gender stereotypes in 2012? Can't girls play ball and boys dance? It's time to think about the kids and help them all to feel important and included.

Reply

Sheryl Pearson

4:49 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

They should just keep the Father and daughter traditional event, and if there isn't a Father in the picture, as so often is the case, then the Mothers should be able to go too and just improvise as the Dad, as they're already fulfilling the role as both parents anyways. That's just my opinion.

Reply
Comment_arrow

John Warshaw

7:17 am on Sunday, September 23, 2012

Why exclude any child based on gender?

barb

4:51 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Just another case of the minority making the rules for the majority!!!!

Reply

Chris L.

5:12 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Next week's story will be about the bullying this kid will surely experience.

Reply

Suzanne

6:24 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Marlborough offered Mother-Son dances and no one bought tickets. I think it was tried a few times. I asked about it when my son was younger. Plus this is for young girls and the young boys just aren't into this, plus they're more immature than girls at the ages that go to these dances. The girls are into it, like getting a new dress, their hair done and sometimes the dads get them a corsage to make it special. I know my dad has taken my daughters and also taken nieces when my brother passed away so young. If a Mom wanted to take her daughter if no dad or other male was around that was okay, too. Moms would do it but I don't know if the girls would want it. My kids really enjoyed these dances.

Reply

Jim Cooley

7:44 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Are we actually paying public servants to discuss this issue? What a waste of taxpayer dollars. 30 years ago we would have just had these events and nobody would have said anything. Today everybody has to have their voice heard. What a joke.

Reply
Comment_arrow

John Warshaw

7:20 am on Sunday, September 23, 2012

Times change and we all need to move forward with the changes.

Shannon Pataky

8:26 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

first, if this were my child my response to this would be "you'll learn in life that you can't do everything you want..." then remind her of all the things she enjoys doing that other kids can't. Some of these kids (I'm not saying this one, I don't know this women or the situation) need to learn that they can't always have everything. and that because they can't doesn't mean everyone shouldn't be allowed to either. What is this mother going to tell her kid if everyone has cell phones and she can't afford one? Will she try to make a law that teens can't have cellphones? If she can't attend prom because she has other plans that night, should the school reschedule? I know that there are kids out there that are jealous that their friends get to go to the dance with dad, or uncle, or grandfather, but it's a life lesson that they should learn, rather then be taught that if you can't have something, no one should be able to enjoy it.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Marlene

9:08 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

I think that if this child's father has died fighting in Iraq or Afganistan and she only has her Mother then it would be very hard to say to a child: "Well, your Dad died fighting for the freedom of everyone going to that dance, but since your father died you can't go to the dance because this is a male parent only dance". No one knows if this child has any extended male family members. This is public education where every child, no matter what her family dynamic looks like, should be able to attend this dance with a parent, male or female. Cell phones, designer clothing, or any other materialistic item a child may ask for and be denied. does not come anywhere close to having the opportunity to celebrate an event with the loving companionship of a parent, male or female.

Comment_arrow

John Warshaw

7:23 am on Sunday, September 23, 2012

A better life lesson is if you see an injustice don't go along with it just because everyone else is. Stand up for what is right.

Comment_arrow

Shannon Pataky

12:32 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

so, the girl scouts in milford hold a father daughter dance every year that my daughter and her father enjoy very much and look foward to... as well as hundreds of other fathers and daughters. I would then have to tell her that they aren't having the dance because some kids can't go? Not that ANYONE in this town would EVER not allow a child to bring a mom when a father or other male figure isn't available... And would probably make a big deal out of a dad who couldn't come because he faught for our country. I'm not saying it's right the kid can't go, I'm saying it's not right that none of the kids can go because one can't. That is life. And as far as a child not being able to go because her father died fighting for our country, THAT is something to be celebrated, that her dad is a hero. Take the opportunity to share that with the community. Teaching the child to show her pride in her fathers choice to protect our country and allow dances to even happen will give her an open mind and a strong sense of pride for her dad and she will grow to be a much stronger women.

Marlene

8:43 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

What if a child has two female parents, or two male parents ? Does that mean both parents are left out if they are both female, or that one of the two male parents would be left out? The definition of 'family' has dramically changed over the years. About 50 percent of traditional parents are divorced leaving a child feeling somewhat at odds when there is an event calling for only one male parent to attend. So should gay parents be left out; children with an absent Dad be left out; a child who may have no extended male family member be left out. Think about it...Father/Daughter dances were started to encourage fathers to take an interest and have more interaction with their daughters...it all started in the days when Dads were the bread winners and Mom had the kids at home all day, or were labeled as 'home-makers' only, and were known charges for the care of 'children'. I think times have changed whereby Dads do spend more time with their children and in some cases are home raising their children. Why not make this a choice parent and child dance and allow the child to choose which parent to bring along. Times have changed and family dynamics have changed along with the times.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Marlene

1:17 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

If Milford Girl Scouts holds an annual dance why don't they just have an annual party or call it a dance to invite any family member to attend and not restrict it to falthers and daughters alone. This is far more inclusive and does not burden a child twice that she doesn't have a father, and that since she doesn't have a father she can't go to a dance because it is exclusively called a "Father/Daughter" dance. It is not the child's fault she does not have a father...she does not need to be taught to learn that she has to be excluded because of it. And by including a child whose father might have died in military service you are celebrating that man's family by making sure she is included at a school dance or whatever organization it is. That goes for girls whose father's may have abandoned them, whose fathers died prematurely from illness, whose parents are divorced, whose parents may be two women, etc. The world is made up of many variables and in these modern times we should love our neighbor and do unto them as we do to ourselves.

Comment_arrow

Shannon Pataky

1:45 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

they also hold an annual cookie sale, should we stop that for the diabetic kids?

Comment_arrow

Shannon Pataky

1:52 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

My point is it's a traditional dance. I know many kids that grew up Jehovah's Witnesses and though they respected and loved thier family and beliefs, were always a bit jealous of the traditions other kids had, like birthdays and christmas. But thier parents never asked me not to celebrate mine.

Marlene

8:50 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

I would also add that this is tax funded public education that should accommodate as many as its students to these events as possible. Our world is made up of many different combinations of parents/families these days and rather than hurt a child in this situation I would rather see it become a parent/child dance and allow the available parent to bring the child and not punish those who may have gay/lesbian parents, divorced parents, absent fathers, those children with no extended family outside of the mother, etc. Public education has a duty to accommodate all its children.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Mike McTague

3:11 am on Sunday, September 23, 2012

First off I have never heard that this a tax funded event, the dance in Natick is paid for by the parents put on by the Recreation Dept. We paid to have it hosted by the Rec Dept. It's also a special bond between Dad and Daughter who normally don't get a lot of time together to begin with. I would not have a problem with a Mom who would want to bring her Daughter but I just don't see that a little girl would want to go with her Mom. I have two Daughters and there's a small window of opportunity that the girls can go to or even want to go to these dances. It was such a great time that I got to spend with them. I also find it hard to believe that each child doesn't have a Father figure that she could go with.

Comment_arrow

Marlene

7:22 am on Sunday, September 23, 2012

The article refers to a RI public school where the dance is to take place...that is why I say it is 'public education' paid by the tax payers. Once again, here is the headline:

Parents of children who attend Cranston, RI public schools were notified recently of a ban on father-daughter and mother-son activities as school lawyers concluded the traditions violate state gender discrimination laws, Cranston Patch

The public school's own lawyers determined that it violated state gender discrimination law.

Comment_arrow

Marlene

4:21 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

This is not a religious event, nor is it one that a religious preference is central to the debate; this is a gender-specific issue that can be remedied quite easily in order to include far more of the student body. Firstly, Those who do not celebrate holidays, such as Christmas, make a religious choice...there's no harboring of jealousy; it should be construed as religious conviction and self-pride that others look for their own religious association and culture

arthur

10:17 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

It's a father/daughter dance. Get over it.

Reply

David Nolta

11:00 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

I don't get this. How can it be "gender discrimination" if one person of each gender is included? Then again, I'm for letting everyone go to everything--fathers and daughters, sons and mothers, sons and fathers, grandmothers and step-children, cousins and neighbors--as long as they're not hurting anyone.

Reply

Aaron Dunbrack

11:27 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

I would say that they should just make it parent/child dances, so that both sexes are included equally: it works under the law and they don't have to change a law that's otherwise likely (I haven't taken a full look at the law itself) quite a good thing.

Reply

TBH

11:37 pm on Saturday, September 22, 2012

Whole lotta hatin' going on in this thread. I don't get it. Just call it a dance where you bring a parent/guardian. That's how every piece of communication from schools are addressed these days, anyway. Most will end up coming with their fathers but no one will feel excluded nor offended by the sex of the child's chaperone. The line of reasoning that the child should simply be told that "you can't have everything" is just cruel and unnecessary.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Mike McTague

3:23 am on Sunday, September 23, 2012

That's all fine and well but these events are not normally tied to the school system.
If we are so worried about what our Daughters will think then maybe they should try a Mother and Daughter / Son dance, I just don't see it having as much meaning. Plus usually these dances happen right around Valentines Day which makes even makes more sense that it should be a Father Daughter event.

Mike

8:17 am on Sunday, September 23, 2012

We do not have to change everything so that it applies equally to everyone. This isn't about equality and fairness, it's about ego. It's every liberal that wants to turn everything in this country to shades of gray. It's a father daughter dance. If your father isn't available you bring your uncle or someone who's been a father figure. If your father happens to be female, then that's who your bring. It's not a parent/child dance - do you bring all the kids or just one and leave the other heartbroken ones at home? It's father daughter, says nothing about gender. It's a kids dance. By the way, make sure you thank the people who plan it, put it together and clean up afterwards while you're sitting over your latte trying to make the world a fair place.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Marlene

9:12 am on Sunday, September 23, 2012

What does political orientation have to do with this? No one said whether the lawyers who decided this case, or the law itself, or those parents who brought the discrimination case were democrats "liberals" or Republicans. This is not a "liberal" thing as implied above. This is a human thing. If it is simply a dance where all are free to attend then it will be a great public school event, otherwise it discriminates.

DLF

10:21 am on Sunday, September 23, 2012

If a daughter happens to not have a father or male family member to take, simply teach her that she will not be able to go to and do everything in life. That does not make her a bad person nor does it make the dance a bad dance. Same for boys. Don't spoil it for others. Stop trying to "include" everyone and appease those parents who cannot just raise their kids by saying no once in a while. Really, its no wonder these parents who complain so much are raising kids who complain so much. I do think if there are 2 Moms or 2 Dads that one of them should be able to attend. Please, let's not raise kids who cannot deal with the challenges that life will bring them. We will all suffer the consequences.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Marlene

12:51 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

On the other hand we can also teach kids the value of caring and including those who would potentially be left out...these are important lessons, not saying tough it up if you don't have a Dad, get over it, and get used to the idea that you're not going to be included in many things in life cause others want what they want and don't give a damn about others. I want my children to learn to care about others, to reach out and include all no matter what. Consideration and caring is an important moral issue for our young to learn. If the lesson is taught maybe we wouldn't have to worry so much about bullying kids.

Comment_arrow

Anonymous

9:53 am on Tuesday, September 25, 2012

Absolutely. We are raising a bunch of entitled cry babies. Get over it. I didn't have a father growing up and I am not scarred by not having gone to the father/daughter dance. Let's let the kids grow a spine. @@

Mike

10:37 am on Sunday, September 23, 2012

Enough with the discrimination card, it's a dance and I doubt if anyone is going to stop anyone at the door. It is a liberal thing, go find something important to be concerned with.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Marlene

12:11 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

LOL....where in the law was it cited or does it say it is a "Liberal" thing? The discrimination law is already on the books.
While title IX allows for father-daughter and mother-son activities, state law is more restrictive. Now, the Cranston school committee is asking state lawmakers to change Rhode Island law to mirror federal law, making the now banned dances legal again.

Janis Urbanek

12:43 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

As a former Girl Scout leader between 1986 -1992 in Massachusetts, a highlight each fall was the Father/Daughter square dance. Attendance was optional. If a Girl Scout (yes, just girls) did not have a father or a father could not attend, the girl could go with other friends and their dads. It was fun. Is Father's Day discriminatory? Should women be celebrated on Father's Day or should we ban that day since some of us have lost our dear dads? Really.

Reply

Marlene

12:54 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

Father's Day is not discriminatory because we also celebrate and honor Mother's Day and Grandparents' Day and this is not the Girl Scouts...this is a tax funded 'public school' issue in the topic news.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Shannon Pataky

2:21 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

And I assume this "tax funded public school" is using thier funds for dances, and the pto or pta is just a ploy, right? We have mother/son dances, we have mother/daughter days, we have father/son picnics. Perhaps the question shouldn't be "why are having this dance" but rather "why aren't we having more like this?" why isn't that the arguement?

DLF

2:48 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

Marlene, Im not saying dont teach caring and empathy to kids. Just saying this is one of the smaller issues in life. There are plenty of serious situations where you teach those "moral" lessons. However, raising kids who cannot deal with NO is wrong. Tired of the soft parents raising whining kids who end up having to be served by the school psychologist (yes on taxpayers dollars) in order to learn how to deal. So yes, while consideration and caring are important, so is sucking it up and letting others enjoy the things you may not be able to.

Reply

Marlene

4:31 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

A public school dance should recognize all families, all combinations of family and not exclude on the basis of gender, In this particular case, no one is asking the school children 'not' to bring their fathers to the dance, what they are asking is not to call it an 'exclusive' father/daughter dance so that 'all' children not fortunate enough to have a father at home, or for those having two females raising them can have the opportunity to attend. This is not a time for teaching children with no male father some lesson; it is a time to celebrate and reinforce each child as being loved and accepted the same. Teach lessons of "no" when they want that expensive item that you can't afford...that's teaching a reality lesson.

Reply

Shannon Pataky

4:44 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

I'm sorry, but every moment of every day is the right time for teaching a child any life lesson. If you don't like my JW example, then here's a school related one. My best friend was severly asmatic, but hated that she couldn't take part in gym with the rest of the kids. should the school cancel gym for her? Not something she can control, not something that makes her happy, but she had to miss out on something she wanted to do because of it. No, because it's obserd to try to please everyone. My kids school does a McTeachers night at McDonalds. Great event, the teachers serve the students food, it's fun for all who attend. Should we cancel it for those who can't? Where does it stop? If we can't have father/daughter dances because some daughters don't have fathers, where do we draw the line with other events? Point is, some kid will always be left out, some kid will always be upset about being left out, and whether its a hard truth or something as simple as having parents who don't like McDonalds, it's lesson to be learned.

Reply

Marlene

5:04 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

Yes, absolutely....what we parents do in our decision-making, our role-modeling, including the caring consideration to show them ways to include more students in a dance will all be teaching moments. This can be one of the most important teaching moments. If you have an open dance for all to come and someone chooses, themselves, not to come, that's their choice just as it is their choice not to attend a McDonald's event...at least they've all been invited without restriction that they can only come if they bring a male father. If a child can not participate in a regular physical eduation class then schools have adaptave physical ed programs to accommodate them so as to help them fulfill the requirements for graduation. So in each case there is either inclusion or an accommodation to include, except for the daughter/father only gender dance. I say make it gender neutral and allow the choice so as to reinforce to all children that everyone is equally important in life. One of the most important lessons you'll ever teach your child.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Shannon Pataky

5:40 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

yes, an adaptive phy ed is required, but that didn't let her play kick ball with us. Just like elimanting a dance created to bond father and daughter doesn't make that child not miss having a father. Equality is important, I'm agreeing with that, but rather then eliminated the event, create more similar ones. More chances to have the children bond with the important people in thier lives. I had a friend who every year the school had grandparents day, where a grandparent could come and eat breakfast with them. His grandmother has trouble walking, and seems how this is his only grandparent, they would plan a breakfast the following weekend, after which he would place flowers on his grandfathers grave. His mother didn't ask the kid not to do it anymore. she used it as a tool to teach him to honor his grandparents, rather then expecting from them. There really is a lesson to everything, but if you are requesting no one enjoy the event due to those who can't attend rather then creating more events so that they may have other oppurtunities to bond with people they do have in thier lives, it's not teaching equality, it's teaching the child that if they can't enjoy it, no one can.

Mike

5:34 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

How about age? Should public school dances recognize all children regardless of age? grade? What about children that attend private schools in the same town, do they get an invitation? What about studends in the same town in the same grade in a different public school, shouldn't they come too? Should all althletes be invited to a basketball banquet? It's a public school, are you really arguing that every event is open to every person regardless of the agenda? Bordering on the ridiculous. Not every moment in life is a teaching moment or intended for every person on the planet. Sometimes it's just a dance and sometimes it's just nice for a Dad to have a fun evening with their daughter.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Shannon Pataky

5:44 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

well said. except the teaching moment part. every moment is, whether you chose to use it to teach is up to you. But even sharing a piece of pie with my kids and laughing about the cats are moments they learn to bond have fun. Not too bad of a lesson if you ask me.

Comment_arrow

Marlene

6:20 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

Dad's and daughters have lots of opportunities to have fun evenings and activities together; it is when it is designated for them as a select group to the exclusion of their classmates that is the issue here. Mike, use your common sense here...when I refer to 'all' I am referring to the students of the public school where this dance is in question; the Cranston, RI Public School...it is not a private school, no one said it was or that anyone should solicit attendance from any private school. . "All" is used here to mean 'inclusive' rather than excluding anyone within that designated group who could not attend because they do not have a male father. By removing the barrier of an exclusive "father/daughter dance and simply having a dance to bring whomever a child chooses, seems more inclusive. If a father is waiting for this dance and this dance alone for his one time to bond with his daughter then I'd say there isn't much relationship there to begin. Fathers and daughters can always go to games together, do shopping together, work on the family car together, do homework together, watch TV together, and on and on...this relatiionship is not dependent on a dance.

DLF

6:47 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

Wow Marlene, use YOUR common sense...no one is saying a father is waiting for a dance and this dance alone for his one time to bond. You are so far off the point.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Marlene

7:11 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

Someone mentioned that the dance was a bonding opportunity for fathers and daughters and a necessary event for them. Isn't that what the debate is all about? ...I say that there are plenty of opportunities for fathers and daughters to bond, they don't need a one time 'exclusive' dance...They can still go to the dance together, just let other girls bring whomever they choose. That's all I was saying.

Comment_arrow

Shannon Pataky

7:46 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

I said they looked foward to it, like they would a ball game. never did I mention it was a necessary event. Again, a TRADITION. Like chinese food for lunch on christmas. except this would, I assume if it's like any dance I've been too, make some money for the school by offering baked goods and cover charges. Again, not ment to hurt people, but a popular event with good intentions.

Marlene

6:56 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

Shannon,
providing a gym alternative sends a mesage she is cared about and not overlooked. The child having no father may continue to miss her father, particularly if he died. What if she was abandoned, or if she has two female parents? Not enabling her to go only adds pain to the wound. A simple change from a "daughter/father" only dance to an inclusionary evening event would enable the daughter with two female parents to bring a female-representative father, or the child whose father has died to bring a mother or even an older sister, or a daughter who has never known a father to not feel left out by bringing someone of choice. ...sitting at home when you know your friends are somewhere you could be, through no fault of your own, is an unwarrented punishment; It isn't her fault. The only lesson to a kid where there is an 'exclusive' dance that excludes a group of children that may have no male Dad reverberates that it is a 'me' kind of world where it's okay to punish a young girl if she has no male Dad, through no fault of her own. Trying to eliminate the gender requirement of the "father/daughter" dance and simply calling it a "Dance" says to children that they can attend because it says: "I'm worthy, too".

Reply
Comment_arrow

Shannon Pataky

7:43 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

so, a child isn't going to feel worthy of themselves if they can't go to a dance intended to be a bonding experiance for father and daughter? she's not forced to go and watch the kids enjoy thier time. for whatever reason they can't go, this will not be the only event in thier life missed or different. It's a hard truth. No one likes it. but that child is going to have to eventually learn to live life anyway. and taking away others traditions for no other reason then a kid doesn't have friends who are senative to her feelings is wrong. and for the record, the gym alternative was to sit on the sidelines and read or watch the game at that age. good times. she's a perfectly normal, loving, smart women. no damage done. and when her daughter is upset that her perfectly healthy father won't take her to a dance, she is told that that is part of her life, and to make the best of what she has, not to stop everyone from going.

Comment_arrow

TBH

7:54 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

But Shannon, here's what I don't get... how is having some girls show up with their Moms somehow diminish the "bonding experience" seemingly only intended for a father and daughter? How is this ruining the tradition? It's still a dance and girls can still go with their dads, it's just that that is no longer a requirement for admission.

Comment_arrow

Kim Poness

10:39 am on Monday, September 24, 2012

I have to chime in. My father died when I was very young, and I was "excluded" from the traditional father-daughter dances in my school district. Guess what? I got over it. I'm fine. It was a part of life I dealt with. My mother made those evenings special for us by taking us out on a "date with Mom". I would have felt terrible if I ruined it for all of the girls who DID have fathers.

Comment_arrow

Shannon Pataky

1:26 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

TBH, every other dance is intended for kids to spend time with family... why not have a special event with dad? otherwise call every dance moving foward just a dance? And girls can't wear gowns to prom either, cuz some kids can't afford dresses and tickets and limos. Maybe schools just shouldn't do anything to encourage parental involvement or social interaction. No extra activites for kids, incase they accidently offend someone or over look someones hardship. THAT is the point I'm trying to make. Kim - thank you for your response. I'm sorry for you to have to go through such a horrible pain at a such a young age. However, your mom's response to the event is exactly what I'm trying to get at. Why ruin it for everyone? and when you do, where does it stop?

TBH

7:46 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

It seems that there are 2 underlying issues that people seems to reacting to here. First being that this is yet another example of enabling and overcompensating our youth in the sense of fairness and quality for all. There is a part of this argument that I can identify with...I don't believe that every kid on every soccer team needs a trophy. But this is not the case here. We are talking about a family event, which should be just that...no matter what the child's family consists of. Secondly, there seems to be some paranoia about eliminating "father" from the title of the event. Do you really think that girls are no longer going to ask their Dad's to come if it is unspecified who can be their chaperone? For years, the girl scouts have been just calling it a dance, where the child's chaperone has no gender requirements other than to be over 18, and guess what.... about 90% or more still come with their father's. The upside is that all of the girls can come, whether fatherless or not. Secondly, this is not an assault on the "American family." It's 2012 and families today come in all shapes sizes and combinations...this is just a reflection of that fact.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Marlene

8:01 pm on Sunday, September 23, 2012

I agree with you TBH....this is not a case of overcompensating that every child must have exactly the same trophy or high grades without earning them; this is a matter of family and belonging and showing children they can have faith in our adults to uphold the integrity of these values. Indeed, families come in all shapes, sizes and combinations in today's world. Enabling a child to attend with a chaperone, no matter what the gender, seems to me to be the best solution. It doesn't stop anyone from attending the dance; it only opens it up for a more inclusive attendance.

Deborah Strafuss

9:28 am on Monday, September 24, 2012

Father-daughter, mother-son relationships are very important. They need special time, place and honor, especially in a society of constantly shifting values and focus. That being said, every child has the right to a relationship that provides the sustaining elements of a father-daughter, mother-son relationship; and these events, while honoring that special bond, need to be for the sake of the bond and not the speciific elements of it, allowing for inclusion of the expansion of these roles in our modern society. How that gets written into law, I have no idea.

Reply

Deb Spence

11:07 am on Monday, September 24, 2012

How absolutely callous for people on this string to refer to using this as a teaching moment for a girl without a father. My father died when I was 10 years old. He had no siblings and both grandfathers had died. My mothers brothers were off fighting in a war called Vietnam and I had no brothers. Don't tell me that this is a teaching moment where I can't get everything..... The day my father died it was very clear to me...... I don't honestly know how I feel about this issue. There is a certain feeling of nostalgia and history but please understand that children do have feeling too. And shame on the males in this society that do not step up on these occasions to make sure no one is left behind.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Marlene

11:57 am on Monday, September 24, 2012

I agree with you, Deb...it's like rubbing the pain of grief in the face of a young girl who has lost a father to war, or terminal illness, or even abandonment, and is then told it is a "father/daughter" only dance. I feel your pain, as I lost my father young, too. Yes, we learn to live our lives with our fathers no longer in our lives, but they are always missed and can never be replaced; though so much more supportive to be included in a dance without having to be reminded that because of your family 'difference' you are excluded.

Comment_arrow

Kim Poness

2:30 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

@Marlene - I think maybe we should give our children a little more credit. Children are resilient. My ex-husband moved to another state when my children were very small. My oldest daughter took dance class for a few years, and during one of the recitals, they played "Daddy's Little Girl", and invited all the "Daddies" to come up onto the stage to dance with their little girls. While I sat in the stands crying my eyes out because I was sure my daughter was heartbroken, my daughter danced with my then-boyfriend (now-husband). If you asked her about it today, I would bet all the money in my wallet that she barely even remembers the "incident". Point being that it breaks a parent's heart to think that their child is hurting, but I think we're going overboard and projecting OUR pain onto them. It also seems that we're taking something very special away from not only the children, but their fathers. Fathers who WANT to be at the Daddy-Daughter dance.

Chris L.

11:21 am on Monday, September 24, 2012

This "problem" (which isn't really a problem), is only going to get more attention as more gay and lesbian couples raising children have their kids get to school age. What about the kids with 2 moms and no dad? Or 2 dads and no moms? This isn't the school's problem, they didn't have the kids.....

Just call it a Family Dance and get it over with. While it may seem callous to some people, its also a little unrealistic to teach a kid that everyone should bend to your will and/or life situation.

If you keep coddling these kids, they're going to grow up to camp in parks in Boston, complaining about the inability to pay off their student loan for their degree in Mesopotamian Pottery and Its Role in 21st Century Femininity....

Reply

Marlene

11:45 am on Monday, September 24, 2012

Gays and Lesbians have been around for centuries and already have their kids in school. It's not the fault of the kids, but it is the school's problem to resolve when schools accept public tax payer money. Any institution that accepts public funding can not discriminate against gender, race, etc, etc, etc.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Chris L.

11:52 am on Monday, September 24, 2012

so you call it a Family Dance, and you move on with life. This "all-inclusive" stuff is KILLING this country. How can people not see this?

You know what? How about every tax payer institution start a policy...everyone can do everything they want, with no repercussions, and no resistance.

Let's abolish the police, since they discriminate against law breakers. Let's abolish the fire department, since their work offends Pyromaniacal Americans. Doctors? They offend Christian Scientists. Teachers? Ooooh, better not be teaching Evolution. Clergy of any kind? They offend other religions. The government will gladly tell us how much we can eat, what we can eat or drink, what time to be at work, what job we're allowed to have, when to go home and go to sleep, acceptable after-work activities, who we may marry, whether or not we have kids, etc etc etc etc.....

This intrusiveness is getting absurd. Someone somewhere needs to push back. If you feel sad about the Father-Daughter dance...SO...Freaking....What. Cry to your mom about it, she's the one responsible for making you feel better about it, NOT the school.

"Life's Hard. Wear a fing helmet."- Denis Leary. Worcester, MA

Comment_arrow

arthur

8:52 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

so being a child of a Gay or Lesbian couple is someone's 'fault', but not the kids though...hypocrite. Let's be inclusive, even if your gay parents are at fault?

Comment_arrow

Chris L.

9:04 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

I said "problem", as in the quandary of how to deal with it. I never said it was someone's fault. Your apology for misquoting me is cheerfully accepted.

Marlene

12:29 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

Intrusiveness works both ways, Sir. If you'd rather not have public school policy under state and federal law then send your kids to private religious school that are not subsidized by state or federal monies. We'fe talking about making sure each person has access to activities, not those that are segregated to a select group. If you work for a public agency, funded as such, you work under the rules of law. If you feel it is intrusive to follow law then you'd probably best find an Island for yourself.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Chris L.

12:34 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

You failed to read one of the key points of my post. I did not say to CANCEL the event in its entirety, thereby spoiling everyone's fun....I said rename it a FAMILY DANCE, and move on with your lives.

I do not work for a public agency, but i used to work for one that is actually REQUIRED by some of your precious laws, to discriminate against certain groups. But hey, let's let the mentally or physically disabled join the military now, since leaving them out would also be discrimination. Liberals should probably THINK before they make sweeping generalizations about what's good for society.

As far as the "laws" go, we all know that some of them are stupid. The ACLU, for every "good" thing they do, they have about 100 of "these" cases.

Comment_arrow

David Nolta

1:07 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

ChrisL, This is why I can't abandon you altogether--at least not yet. Yes, call it a family dance. Now, when you make a remark that begins, "Liberals should probably THINK before they make sweeping generalizations"--tell me, please, that you see something ironic about it!! Make my day. Still holding on.

Comment_arrow

Chris L.

2:41 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

Face it, David....you need people like me. Without dissent, these boards would be nothing more than a room of virtual bobbleheads, bouncing up and down in agreement with your every word. Boring.

And yes, there IS an irony to the whole situation: the "party of inclusion" has reached the point where if one person can't be included, no one should be included. That sort of runs contrary to their doctrine, does it not? Shouldn't the ACLU be pushing for exactly what I called for? A dance everyone can attend? So, please tell me how raining on everyone's parade enriches children's lives? This tactic reminds me very much of my time in the military. We were always told that if one person in the unit failed, we all failed. Why are we starting our non-military children down that path so early in life? What's next, Mao suits?

I shudder......

Comment_arrow

David Nolta

8:35 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

Chris L--Behave!! We agree about a dance for everybody--you are gnawing on your own foot, and I hate to see that. Your own stereotyping is the problem here, and I see plenty of Chris L bobbleheads (of indistinct gender) all agreeing with you. What, exactly, makes you shudder, Chris L.? Is it the inclusiveness you denigrate as a goal, or is it, by some odd chance, that you actually can imagine--if only in your worst nightmares--what it might be like to be the excluded person? I mean, you are cocky, you make fun of people's looks, and you look up the details of people's personal lives who commit the grave folly of using their real names in conversation, and then you lie about those same people--you are drenched in dishonor--yet I am convinced that you are haunted by the notion that you, too, in some context, might be the outcast for whom you claim to have no time or patience. Well, that's why I can't give you up altogether. Keep working on it, one way or another...

Comment_arrow

Chris L.

9:09 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

David, i made broad generalizations based on what i saw and found online. You say I lied, i say I'm laying the foundation for a second career ass a campaign manager..

Comment_arrow

Chris L.

9:16 am on Tuesday, September 25, 2012

ah, the failings of typing replies on a cellphone with Swype...I assure you, I meant "as" in my previous post. Leave off that extra S

Marlene

12:58 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

I'm glad to see that you are suggesting to rename the dance to "Family Dance"...actually just calling it a "Dance" would probably enable those who choose to go to invite whomever they want to attend. As for letting the mentally or physically disabled join the military, I'd say that we already have millions already in the military who are mentally or physically disabled and many doing a job, maybe not on the field, but certainly doing office jobs as such, or in other suitable position according to the ADA that enables the physcially and mentally disabled to access, either gainful employment, or to work at the level best suited for them. And I'm all for that, too. This is not a "liberal" thing as you have posited here; this is simply how good, caring humans care for one another to ensure everyone gets a fair shot as being included in life.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Chris L.

1:01 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

No, Marlene. There is a distinction. If you are injured in combat and are rehabilitated enough to meet the physical fitness standards, you can stay in, but this is mostly in the Marine Corps or Army. Not so much in the Air Force or Marines.

The people you speak of work FOR the Dept. of Defense, but they are not active duty.

Back to the point of the dance though, CALL it whatever you want, but let everyone know they're welcome. Not as big a deal as the "everyone should be included" crowd is making it...

Comment_arrow

Chris L.

1:02 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

Should say Air Force or Navy

Sherry L Pearson

1:32 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

Knowing all the controversy over this; I'm staying home next time they have the Father'Daughter dance.

Reply

Francis P. Ardito,Sr

8:12 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

The ACLU be damned! They isert themselves in people's lives. The Cranston school officials and their attorney's are gutless wonders. Cranston should have ignored the ACLU. This would force tthe ACLU in making this a national issue. They would receive notoriety once more. They are liberal minded individuals who are also hypocrites. By example, they staged a rally for a certain cause. They also suppled anti-picket signs to protest the cause. Ridculous!

Reply

David Nolta

8:43 pm on Monday, September 24, 2012

You must be one of those people who have a very limited idea of what is a worthwhile cause, and what is normal--and what you say goes. Is that a good guess? In any case, it doesn't make for progress: a constant increase in the freedom of an ever larger number of people.

Reply

Sue Winter

9:32 am on Tuesday, September 25, 2012

This is the stupidest issue. The woman who started this should be ashamed of herself. If her kid doesn't have a father, then another male in her life could have gone with her. Instead, the woman has cry to the world about how unfair the world is to her precious darling and ruins the fun for everyone else. Stupid, stupid, stupid. She's an idiot.

Maybe there should be Mother-Son stuff too. Just saying.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Marlene

12:55 pm on Tuesday, September 25, 2012

People who were against women's voting rights thought a woman's right to vote was the "stupidest issue" too...just ask my 107 yr. old mother who still remembers those days; or, how it was the "stupidest..." that in my early school days that I chose to sit at the back of the bus, or at the back of the classroom just so as to support the two black girls who attended my school because they were not afforded equal rights in those days. And the people I knew before the ADA and PL94-142 who thought it was the stupidest that someone with mental retardation should attend school at all. Thank goodness that there were those of us willing to stand up for the rights of those who would intentionally be left out. The laws of discrimination include 'gender' as well...what we once considered 'traditional' family has changed over time to include 'difference'. Let's wake up to the times.

Comment_arrow

Shannon Pataky

1:39 pm on Tuesday, September 25, 2012

so, we're compairing a childs dance, that they attend voluntarely, to womens rights and the rights of the people with intellectual disabilities? And the equal rights of black people? I'm all for standing up for peoples rights, when they are being wronged. this little girl was not being wronged. again, she isn't forced to attend the dance. because THAT would be cruel. And yes, the traditional family has changed, that doesn't mean that we need to start taking away from fathers/daughters, but that we need to open up more oppertunities for them to bond with all parents involved. there are starving families in my town. there are kids that go to school with no snacks, and my kids have several times brought in extra snacks for them. THAT is an important issue, kids that can't eat. Not a dance. that is what we are faced with in these "times". I'll debate you all day on the right or wrong of changing this dance, but don't compare a dance with culture struggles.

Comment_arrow

Marlene

1:55 pm on Tuesday, September 25, 2012

Let's not forget that this issue was raised and solidified as being an anti-discrimination issue by the 'school's lawyers'...and let's not forget that a public school must adhere to state and federal laws that fund them via tax payer dollars, ensuring that everyone is teated without discriminations. The Anti-Discriminations laws require: (according to law) that people must be dealt with on an equal basis regardless of sex, age, race, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, gender identity and sometimes religious and political opinions. Holding a "Dance" that would enable daughters to bring their fathers, or daughters to bring a mother, sister or brother, uncle, grandfather, or son who want to bring his gay dad, etc. etc. This would be a dance that would not discriminate; however, the limitation of a father/daughter only dance would not enable others those rights. If I haven't expressed the point right before maybe this will help to better understand. It is not 'my' law; it is my belief...it is the state and federal laws that dictate this and the Cranston RI lawyers have deemed the correctness under the law.

Inigo Montoya

12:18 pm on Tuesday, September 25, 2012

Ravens fans were chanting a cheer the other night that sums this up pretty well.

Reply

Sherry L Pearson

3:18 pm on Tuesday, September 25, 2012

Just rename the event "Universal dance" so everyone can come.

Reply

Leave a comment